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Traveller-digest      Friday, October 29 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1277<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
OT: Mathematical help needed<BR>
RE: triste dia<BR>
Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
Re: OT: Mathematical help needed<BR>
Re: Mathematical help needed<BR>
Re: Mathematical help needed<BR>
Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
Test<BR>
Re: How many contacts to span the Imperium?<BR>
Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
Jump-6 Yacht (Using FF&S2) [longish]<BR>
Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
Re: How many contacts to span the Imperium?<BR>
Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:51:34 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: OT: Mathematical help needed<BR>
<BR>
I need some mathematical advice. Sorry to clog bandwidth. Please respond to<BR>
the off-topic part offlist.<BR>
<BR>
The Ontario government has come up with a new grading system for school<BR>
students. It is roughly as follows:<BR>
<BR>
level 4 - exceeds expectations (>90%)<BR>
level 3 - meets expectation (75-90%)<BR>
level 2 - meets many expectation, but not all (60-75%)<BR>
level 1 - meets bare minimum of expectations (50-60%)<BR>
<BR>
There is also a phantom "level 0", which is a failing grade.  The<BR>
government expects level 4 to be rare, no more than 5% of the students;<BR>
only time will tell if they stick to their guns when parents arrive (with<BR>
lawyers) to argue for marks...<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, my problem is that the government has provided no system for<BR>
combining marks from many evaluations into a final grade. Our instructions<BR>
are merely to use the "predominant" level, which is pretty vague and not<BR>
what we were promised. The new automated gradebook, which was supposed to<BR>
do this automatically, has been delayed again, and we have to provide marks<BR>
by November 15.<BR>
<BR>
Can anyone provide me with a mathematically valid way of combining these<BR>
marks together? Mere averaging doesn't work, obviously. The percentage<BR>
equivalents I've provided are just guidelines - the actual marks are<BR>
arrived at by consulting descriptions of what that level of work should be<BR>
like. I'll provide more details via private email on request.<BR>
<BR>
Professional note: if we use your idea, I'll make certain that you get<BR>
co-author status on our report.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: There's got to be the seeds of a good adventure here. Something<BR>
with an impersonal bureaucracy, of course.  I'll post something later this<BR>
weekend. Promise.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:56:20 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: RE: triste dia<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 29 Oct 1999, Rob Brady wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Poets usually don't have any money, but this reminds me of a movie I saw<BR>
> once... <BR>
<BR>
No, but sometimes the groups they inspire will pay to get them rescued.<BR>
<BR>
> Hmm... The spaceship is idling on the tarmac of the downport formerly<BR>
> held by Solomani, but recently overrun by the Imperium. The formerly<BR>
> incorrigible spaceport saloon keeper (reminds one of Han Solo, just in<BR>
> it for the money) is now saying the wife (played by Ingrid Bergman) of<BR>
> the great Solomani poet, Victor Lazlo, "And you never will. But I've<BR>
> got a job to do, too. And where I'm going you can't follow. What I've<BR>
> got to do, you can't be any part of. Ilsa, I'm no good at being noble,<BR>
> but it doesn't take much to see that the problems of three little<BR>
> people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. Some day<BR>
> you'll understand that. Here's looking at you, kid."<BR>
> <BR>
LOL...<BR>
<BR>
I love that movie...<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:58:03 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
<BR>
Where did you get that graphic...it sure _looks_ rendered to me...the<BR>
model might be Out There...<BR>
<BR>
Shimmergloom wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> any of you 3D gods out there wanna do a custom (charity) job for me?  lol...<BR>
> <BR>
> I'd like to get a 3D version of the station located at....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:58:21 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Mathematical help needed<BR>
<BR>
Robert Prior writes:<BR>
<BR>
<System which exactly duplicates standard grading schemes but cleverly renames the terms snipped><BR>
<BR>
> Can anyone provide me with a mathematically valid way of combining these<BR>
> marks together? Mere averaging doesn't work, obviously. The percentage<BR>
> equivalents I've provided are just guidelines - the actual marks are<BR>
> arrived at by consulting descriptions of what that level of work should be<BR>
> like. I'll provide more details via private email on request.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Define 'mathematically valid'.  Simple averaging is not clearly wrong.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:12:28 -0400<BR>
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfrei@gte.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Mathematical help needed<BR>
<BR>
Rob,<BR>
    I'm sorry to hear about this.  I'm probably one of the many on this list<BR>
that<BR>
believes in a good education, and holding the students accountable for their<BR>
performance.  This grading system appears to remove any form of<BR>
competition and sense of accomplishment.  If the final grade has no basis<BR>
in the students' performance for that period of time, then this becomes a<BR>
matter of giving the student a mark based upon nothing.<BR>
<BR>
    This move looks like a major cave in to political correctness.  In the<BR>
short<BR>
term this will hurt the students, but in the long run it will hurt Canada.<BR>
<BR>
    Sorry about the math.  I won't be able to help you there.  Maybe some<BR>
sort<BR>
of Random number generator will give you a perfect bell curve.  According<BR>
to your description of how the grading system is supposed to work, I<BR>
wouldn't<BR>
worry about trying to match it to the students performance.  It doesn't<BR>
really<BR>
matter.<BR>
<BR>
    Just my 0.02 cents.  Please don't take this as an attempt to bash<BR>
Canada.<BR>
I don't particularly have a warm spot in my heart for the American<BR>
government<BR>
either.<BR>
<BR>
    Oh, wait a minute I hear someone knocking... Hey they look an awful lot<BR>
like barbarians...<BR>
<BR>
Eric<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
To: Traveller Mailing List <traveller@mpgn.com><BR>
Date: Friday, October 29, 1999 7:51 PM<BR>
Subject: OT: Mathematical help needed<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>I need some mathematical advice. Sorry to clog bandwidth. Please respond to<BR>
>the off-topic part offlist.<BR>
><BR>
>The Ontario government has come up with a new grading system for school<BR>
>students. It is roughly as follows:<BR>
><BR>
>level 4 - exceeds expectations (>90%)<BR>
>level 3 - meets expectation (75-90%)<BR>
>level 2 - meets many expectation, but not all (60-75%)<BR>
>level 1 - meets bare minimum of expectations (50-60%)<BR>
><BR>
>There is also a phantom "level 0", which is a failing grade.  The<BR>
>government expects level 4 to be rare, no more than 5% of the students;<BR>
>only time will tell if they stick to their guns when parents arrive (with<BR>
>lawyers) to argue for marks...<BR>
><BR>
>Anyway, my problem is that the government has provided no system for<BR>
>combining marks from many evaluations into a final grade. Our instructions<BR>
>are merely to use the "predominant" level, which is pretty vague and not<BR>
>what we were promised. The new automated gradebook, which was supposed to<BR>
>do this automatically, has been delayed again, and we have to provide marks<BR>
>by November 15.<BR>
><BR>
>Can anyone provide me with a mathematically valid way of combining these<BR>
>marks together? Mere averaging doesn't work, obviously. The percentage<BR>
>equivalents I've provided are just guidelines - the actual marks are<BR>
>arrived at by consulting descriptions of what that level of work should be<BR>
>like. I'll provide more details via private email on request.<BR>
><BR>
>Professional note: if we use your idea, I'll make certain that you get<BR>
>co-author status on our report.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>ObTrav: There's got to be the seeds of a good adventure here. Something<BR>
>with an impersonal bureaucracy, of course.  I'll post something later this<BR>
>weekend. Promise.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:19:12 -0400<BR>
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfrei@gte.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Mathematical help needed<BR>
<BR>
Oops, sorry about sending that message to the list.  I wouldn't<BR>
have quoted the entire message.<BR>
<BR>
Eric<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:22:01 -0400<BR>
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfrei@gte.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
<BR>
Hey, is this how life was started on Earth billions of years ago?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
>smiles with fondness as he remember his 'inhabited' near-c rock scenario<BR>
><BR>
>----------------------------------------------<BR>
>he he he he he he he he he he he he<BR>
><BR>
>      Shimmer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:31:46 -0700<BR>
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com><BR>
Subject: Test<BR>
<BR>
Test<BR>
<BR>
My e-mail account with @home some how got dumped and I've been told it<BR>
should work now.<BR>
<BR>
Wayne<BR>
wewart@home.com<BR>
<BR>
Give a man fire and he is warm for the night.<BR>
Set a man on fire and he is warm all his life.<BR>
- - Terry Pratchett<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:36:20 -0500<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: How many contacts to span the Imperium?<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>> <BR>
<BR>
> I<BR>
> have ONE friend in Indonesia, but we're not as close as we used to be<BR>
> because she doesn't like Hiroshi.)<BR>
<BR>
<tongue-in-cheek><BR>
<BR>
How did your friend manage to meet the first ruler of the Second<BR>
Imperium, and what did she find objectionable about him?<BR>
<BR>
</tongue-in-cheek><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:37:10 -0500<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
<BR>
Do you really want to hear about the scenario?  I have posted it to the list<BR>
before and don't want to bore people.<BR>
<BR>
Eric Freitas wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Hey, is this how life was started on Earth billions of years ago?<BR>
><BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> >smiles with fondness as he remember his 'inhabited' near-c rock scenario<BR>
> ><BR>
> >----------------------------------------------<BR>
> >he he he he he he he he he he he he<BR>
> ><BR>
> >      Shimmer<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------<BR>
he he he he he he he he he he he he<BR>
<BR>
      Shimmer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:39:19 -0500<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
<BR>
it comes from a Star Trek mailing list I am on.  I'll have to look into that.<BR>
Thanks for the thought.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Where did you get that graphic...it sure _looks_ rendered to me...the<BR>
> model might be Out There...<BR>
><BR>
> Shimmergloom wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > any of you 3D gods out there wanna do a custom (charity) job for me?  lol...<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I'd like to get a 3D version of the station located at....<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> Bruce Johnson<BR>
> University of Arizona<BR>
> College of Pharmacy<BR>
> Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------<BR>
he he he he he he he he he he he he<BR>
<BR>
      Shimmer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:13:07 -0500<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Jump-6 Yacht (Using FF&S2) [longish]<BR>
<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards is pleased to announce the latest in high-speed,<BR>
high-luxury travel:  The _Greyhound_ class fast yacht.  This 100-dton<BR>
ship is designed to meet the needs of nobles and businessmen who must<BR>
swiftly travel long distances to maintain their interests.  At a cost of<BR>
only MCr 48.695, _Greyhound_ can travel six parsecs per week, carrying<BR>
two sophonts in luxury, or up to four sophonts in comfort.  On-board<BR>
fuel refining, combined with gas-giant skimming capability, ensures that<BR>
_Greyhound_ will not be delayed by the search for refined fuel.  Note<BR>
that a less-luxurious version of _Greyhound_ (with identical performance<BR>
and capacity) can be built for only MCr 40.579 (MCr 36.521 for bulk<BR>
purchases).  For further details, see the technical specifications<BR>
below.  "Res Ipsa Loquitur."<BR>
<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards _Greyhound_ Fast Yacht<BR>
<BR>
Tons: 100 std (SL Short Rounded Cylinder Hypersonic) <BR>
Dimensions: 19.8 m x 9.9 m x 9.9 m<BR>
Volume: 1400 m3<BR>
Cargo: 3 std (1 hatches, Hdl: 1 x 4 t) <BR>
Mass (L/C): 539 t / 445 t <BR>
Maintenance Points: 17<BR>
Passengers High/Med: 2 High <BR>
Crew: 2 / 4 <BR>
Frozen Watch: 0<BR>
Cost: 48.695 MCr   (Cost Multiplier 1.2)<BR>
Tech Level: 15<BR>
Size: 8 <BR>
<BR>
Electronics<BR>
Controls: Holographic, High automation. 4 x FltComp (CM: .35 CP: 2.86).<BR>
4 x Comp (CM: .35 CP: 2.86). No bridge.<BR>
Communications: 2 x Radio (500 kkm, 0.17 MW). 4 x Laser (1,000 AU, 0<BR>
MW).<BR>
Sensors: 1xPEMS (12.5 [1.6 mkm], 0 MW). 1xAEMS (11 [.16 mkm] LP, .05<BR>
MW).<BR>
Survey/Science: None<BR>
ECM: None<BR>
Signatures: Vis: -1, IR: 0 (-0.5 at 15 MW), Act: 0, Neu: 0, Grav: -1<BR>
<BR>
Performance <BR>
6 Jump (60 std/pc fuel) <BR>
1 / 1.2 Maneuver (Thruster: 13 MW)<BR>
1 / 1.2 Contra-grav (9 MW)<BR>
1972 kph/2356 kph Atmosphere Maximum <BR>
1479 kph/1767 kph Atmosphere Cruise <BR>
1 Power (Fusion: 153 MW,1yr) <BR>
0 Battery<BR>
61.1 Fuel (Scoop:2 / Purif: 21, 1 MW) <BR>
4/2/0/2 Accommodations (SmStRoom/LargeStRoom/Low Berth/Emgy Low Berth) <BR>
80 Life Sup. (Type:Extended, Excellent Food/Storage) <BR>
1 G-Comp <BR>
0 [20] Armor, 6 Structure <BR>
<BR>
Weapons:  None<BR>
<BR>
Features:<BR>
1 x Airlock <BR>
2 x Ship's locker (.05 std ea.) <BR>
1 x Full Galley (Cap: 8 each) <BR>
<BR>
Small Craft:  None<BR>
<BR>
Backups <BR>
Drives: None <BR>
Screens: None<BR>
Communications: <BR>
Sensors: None<BR>
ECM: None <BR>
Power & Fuel: None <BR>
<BR>
Crew Details: 2 x Maneuver. 1 x Medical.  1 x Steward.<BR>
<BR>
Designer's Notes:<BR>
<BR>
First, I wanted to try designing a 100-dton Jump-6 ship, that had some<BR>
actual utility (a bit of cargo and passenger space).  Next, I tried to<BR>
imagine who would purchase such a ship.  Governments would probably be<BR>
interested (hence the MCr 40.579/MCr 36.521 "stripped" variant).  I also<BR>
believe that there would be a market in M:1100 for a jump-6 personal<BR>
transport.  Those potential buyers would likely prefer highly<BR>
comfortable accomodations, which is why I used a cost multiplier of 1.2<BR>
(to account for luxurious furnishings).<BR>
<BR>
Comments, anyone?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:14:45 -0400<BR>
From: "Micheal D. Peters" <Travelleri@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
<BR>
Humm, where and how to start... There are probably as many answers as there<BR>
are 3d players out there! I don't think more than 3 of us use the same<BR>
software. I started playing with a "free" version (magazine cd) of poser 1<BR>
and Truespace 2 I believe. The magazine was Computer Arts and I think they<BR>
may still have the issue with the program as a back order.<BR>
<BR>
Almost unknown to me I already had one 3d program, Corel 3d Dream that came<BR>
with my Corel 6 package. After "cutting my teeth on Truespace, I went back<BR>
and hit the Corel books and that program, Since Truespace didn't have a<BR>
manual I missed a lot of truely GOOD things while tinkering with it, I found<BR>
out about many of them thriugh the Corel Dream manual.<BR>
<BR>
By luck I found  someone that was looking to get rid of the RayDream 5.2<BR>
package, the big brother version to Corel Dream. This was an easier<BR>
transition, but now Metacreations is brining out a totally new 3d program,<BR>
incorperatin parts of Raydream, parts of Infinity D (?) and an interface<BR>
similar to the new poser and Bryce interface. So now I have to decide<BR>
whither I want to "upgrade" to another program, and is Carrara (MC's<BR>
program) the right one.<BR>
<BR>
Lightwave, as Jesse uses it, seems to have some real advantages, but at a<BR>
very high cost. Of course the program doesn't do it all... even with it I<BR>
doubt that I'd be in Jesse's league (well I can wish, but..), so is it worth<BR>
the money? Probably not at this time...<BR>
<BR>
Well, that's how I started playing with this stuff, and it now consumes MOST<BR>
of my free time! My wife uses the names of several 3d artists on this list<BR>
as if they contained ony 4 letters... and says that they are going to be<BR>
named in the divorce papers, but dang if it isn't fun!!!<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 7:39 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Hey, don't feel bad.  At least you get end products.<BR>
><BR>
> I really wan to try some of this.  How does one get started?  What<BR>
software has<BR>
> the best balance of ease of use and usefulness?  any advice you Masters<BR>
would<BR>
> give to anyone foolish enough to think he can join you?<BR>
><BR>
> Tommy Grav wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > On Fri, 29 Oct 1999, Shane Nicholas Thomas wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >This 3D business is definately not as easy as Jesse (and others) make<BR>
it<BR>
> > >look!<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Well you seem to have the business down, for those pictures look very<BR>
good.<BR>
> > Nice compsition and realistic lighting.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > You are far beyond me in this, and I have used many hours to try to<BR>
> > understand this, but have a very poor artistic sense. I can get the<BR>
> > 3D objects to look decent, but have no clue about composition of<BR>
> > images, so the end product always look disappointing :-(<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >Shane<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Tommy Grav<BR>
> > -------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> > tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/<BR>
> > Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No<BR>
> > IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> ----------------------------------------------<BR>
> he he he he he he he he he he he he<BR>
><BR>
>       Shimmer<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:34:00 -0500<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
<BR>
I will look for that computer Arts issue.  How much of an artist do you have to<BR>
be?  Do these programs do the framework for you or do you have to draw that<BR>
yourself?<BR>
<BR>
"Micheal D. Peters" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Humm, where and how to start... There are probably as many answers as there<BR>
> are 3d players out there! I don't think more than 3 of us use the same<BR>
> software. I started playing with a "free" version (magazine cd) of poser 1<BR>
> and Truespace 2 I believe. The magazine was Computer Arts and I think they<BR>
> may still have the issue with the program as a back order.<BR>
><BR>
> Almost unknown to me I already had one 3d program, Corel 3d Dream that came<BR>
> with my Corel 6 package. After "cutting my teeth on Truespace, I went back<BR>
> and hit the Corel books and that program, Since Truespace didn't have a<BR>
> manual I missed a lot of truely GOOD things while tinkering with it, I found<BR>
> out about many of them thriugh the Corel Dream manual.<BR>
><BR>
> By luck I found  someone that was looking to get rid of the RayDream 5.2<BR>
> package, the big brother version to Corel Dream. This was an easier<BR>
> transition, but now Metacreations is brining out a totally new 3d program,<BR>
> incorperatin parts of Raydream, parts of Infinity D (?) and an interface<BR>
> similar to the new poser and Bryce interface. So now I have to decide<BR>
> whither I want to "upgrade" to another program, and is Carrara (MC's<BR>
> program) the right one.<BR>
><BR>
> Lightwave, as Jesse uses it, seems to have some real advantages, but at a<BR>
> very high cost. Of course the program doesn't do it all... even with it I<BR>
> doubt that I'd be in Jesse's league (well I can wish, but..), so is it worth<BR>
> the money? Probably not at this time...<BR>
><BR>
> Well, that's how I started playing with this stuff, and it now consumes MOST<BR>
> of my free time! My wife uses the names of several 3d artists on this list<BR>
> as if they contained ony 4 letters... and says that they are going to be<BR>
> named in the divorce papers, but dang if it isn't fun!!!<BR>
><BR>
> Mike<BR>
><BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net><BR>
> To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 7:39 PM<BR>
> Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
><BR>
> > Hey, don't feel bad.  At least you get end products.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I really wan to try some of this.  How does one get started?  What<BR>
> software has<BR>
> > the best balance of ease of use and usefulness?  any advice you Masters<BR>
> would<BR>
> > give to anyone foolish enough to think he can join you?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Tommy Grav wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > On Fri, 29 Oct 1999, Shane Nicholas Thomas wrote:<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > >This 3D business is definately not as easy as Jesse (and others) make<BR>
> it<BR>
> > > >look!<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Well you seem to have the business down, for those pictures look very<BR>
> good.<BR>
> > > Nice compsition and realistic lighting.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > You are far beyond me in this, and I have used many hours to try to<BR>
> > > understand this, but have a very poor artistic sense. I can get the<BR>
> > > 3D objects to look decent, but have no clue about composition of<BR>
> > > images, so the end product always look disappointing :-(<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > >Shane<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Tommy Grav<BR>
> > > -------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> > > tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/<BR>
> > > Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No<BR>
> > > IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++<BR>
> > ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > --<BR>
> > ----------------------------------------------<BR>
> > he he he he he he he he he he he he<BR>
> ><BR>
> >       Shimmer<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------<BR>
he he he he he he he he he he he he<BR>
<BR>
      Shimmer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:46:05 -0700<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: How many contacts to span the Imperium?<BR>
<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
><BR>
><<snip>><BR>
><BR>
>> I have ONE friend in Indonesia, but we're not as close as we used to be<BR>
because she doesn't like Hiroshi.)<BR>
>><BR>
><tongue-in-cheek><BR>
><BR>
>How did your friend manage to meet the first ruler of the Second<BR>
>Imperium, and what did she find objectionable about him?<BR>
><BR>
></tongue-in-cheek><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Um, I introduced them, remember that Six Degrees of whomever game we were<BR>
playing?  Didn't know my web was that extensive didja?<BR>
<BR>
She doesn't like his religious beliefs, or rather lack of them.  And she<BR>
doesn't understand aspects of our relationship that are not to be discussed<BR>
on the Traveller Mailing List.  <WEG><BR>
<BR>
Wow, does this mean I'm gonna get to be EMPRESS???<BR>
<BR>
(I totally forgot that there was an Emperor named Hiroshi.  Well, I think my<BR>
Hiroshi would make a great Emperor.  It would be an Imperium filled with<BR>
great porn, trashy media, and marvellous music... and the fashions!  WOW!)<BR>
<BR>
LOL, Kiri<BR>
"it's good to be Queen, but it's better to be Empress..."<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan            93!              Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
the current fair warnings:<BR>
<BR>
"No matter what, expect the unexpected.  And whenever<BR>
possible, BE the unexpected."     -- Lynda Barry<BR>
<BR>
"Honest to the point of recklessness, and self-centered<BR>
 in the extreme."            -- Robert Hunter/Jerry Garcia<BR>
<BR>
"God sent me to piss the world off!"  -- Eminem<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:44:53 -0700<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
<BR>
First attempt?  Get out!!  Those shots are VERY nice, regardless of 1st or<BR>
100th attempt.  The Mars texture you used isn't all that hot, but otherwise<BR>
they're very nice.<BR>
<BR>
Great job, and keep 'em coming!<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Shane Nicholas Thomas <shane.thomas@bigfoot.com><BR>
To: Traveller Mailing List <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Friday, October 29, 1999 11:50 AM<BR>
Subject: Yet more 3D work<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Jesse has a lot to answer for!  Like a number of others here on the TML,<BR>
>his wonderful pictures has made me have a go myself.  Far too many hours<BR>
>later, the first fruits are ready for public consumption, praise, ridicule,<BR>
>whatever, and can be seen at<BR>
><BR>
>http://traveller.cjb.net/<BR>
><BR>
>There are currently three pictures of my attempt at modelling Daedalus, the<BR>
>British Interplanetary Societ's proposal for an interstellar craft.<BR>
><BR>
>This 3D business is definately not as easy as Jesse (and others) make it<BR>
>look!<BR>
><BR>
>ObTrav: Pre-jump spacefaring societies...<BR>
><BR>
>Hmmm.  I think I may just have to find my copy of FF&S and try to come up<BR>
>with some specs.<BR>
><BR>
>Shane<BR>
><BR>
>--<BR>
>Shane Thomas                      I thought I saw the light at the end of<BR>
>shane.thomas@traveller.cjb.net    the tunnel, but it was only a bastard<BR>
>                                  with a torch bringing me more work...<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:49:10 -0700<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
<BR>
While you don't have to be a conventional artist to do 3D work, it<BR>
definately helps (as you found out :)  I'd suggest a trip down to the<BR>
library or book store for something as simple as a basic drawing book.  Most<BR>
of these introduce things like perspective, the rule of threes, etc., and<BR>
can definately help you improve your shots Tommy.<BR>
<BR>
Best,<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no><BR>
To: Traveller Mailing List <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Friday, October 29, 1999 1:06 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>On Fri, 29 Oct 1999, Shane Nicholas Thomas wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>This 3D business is definately not as easy as Jesse (and others) make it<BR>
>>look!<BR>
><BR>
>Well you seem to have the business down, for those pictures look very good.<BR>
>Nice compsition and realistic lighting.<BR>
><BR>
>You are far beyond me in this, and I have used many hours to try to<BR>
>understand this, but have a very poor artistic sense. I can get the<BR>
>3D objects to look decent, but have no clue about composition of<BR>
>images, so the end product always look disappointing :-(<BR>
><BR>
>>Shane<BR>
><BR>
>Tommy Grav<BR>
>-------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
>tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/<BR>
>Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No<BR>
>IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1277<BR>
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